40 Acres & a Strip Club (poisontaster) wrote in wincon,
40 Acres & a Strip Club

Respect The Poon Panel Talking Points

I'm so sorry this has taken me this long to get up.  I'm still AFK visiting family and I haven't had the time I thought I would to clean this up and make it prettier, so this is the raw outline that I and my fellow panelists put together in brainstorming on the topic of women in media and fandom.  I hope there's still a lot of discussion to be had and I'd like to thank azephirin, cantarina1 and coyotesuspect, in particular for being willing to get up on the panel and discuss this with me. 

Again, these are the raw talking points, so thoughts herein may not be fully composed or considered. 

1.        Het

a.        The Romance Paradigm

                                                               i.      Rape as love.

                                                              ii.      The submissive woman.

                                                            iii.      Mpreg & heteronormativity in slash

b.       "Transgressive" heterosexuality

                                                               i.      Girl Saves Boy

1.        But are the women on top in those relationships or are they dominant everywhere EXCEPT in their relationships?

2.        Where is the line between “girl saving boy” (ostensibly transgressive) and “woman as caretaker” (traditional toxic myth)?

                                                              ii.      Het id-crack

1.        What does that MEAN? What do our ids want from het?

2.        Femmeslash

a.        Bromance vs. Girlfriends: are we more likely to interpret close male relationships as queer and female ones as 'mere' friendship or is it just that there are more close male friendships in popular media and female relationships tend to either be with males (their romantic partners or BFFs) or that females tend to vee off the male protags (love interests of the heroes who seldom interact)

b.       Relating to that: fanon vs. canon: creating relationships that don’t exist in canon.

c.        What are the fandoms that best lend themselves to femmeslash and how "big" are those fandoms?

d.       Visibility of Femmeslash

e.        Insularity

3.        Genderswap

a.        Do we make boys girls because we want more women in the narrative or are there other reasons behind it?

b.       Does it "count" as a different category if you switch genders (ie, always a girl Sam/always a girl Dean)

c.        Seen less often, but...what happens when an author makes a canonically female character male? (Ex.: boy!Pepper/Tony in Iron Man) Erasure of female characters/agency, or just another way to tell the story?

4.        Roles for Women in Fandom

a.        "Bad" Women

                                                               i.      Conduit

                                                              ii.      Ball-Crushing Bitch

                                                            iii.      Lovelorn or Lovelorn Saboteur (if I can't have him no one will!)

                                                            iv.      The Faithless Lover (she cheated first!)

b.       "Good" Women

                                                               i.      Fag Hag/Enabler/BFF/Adviser (still not great, but not a "villain", is allowed to have a prominent role)

                                                              ii.      Badass (with or without added sex positivity) (Buffy/Faith)

                                                            iii.      The "good to go"/awesome wife/girlfriend (El from White Collar)

                                                            iv.      The Smart, Nerdy Girl (Fred, Kaylee, Astrid)

                                                             v.      The Professional Woman (CJ Gregg)

c.        Mary-Sues

                                                               i.      Bad or good?

                                                              ii.      Are all self-inserts Mary-Sues?

                                                            iii.      Are all OFCs Mary-Sues?

                                                            iv.      Are people willing to give OFCs a chance, in your experience?

                                                             v.      Why does fandom tolerate male self-inserts (Dean Winchester, James Bond) but not female ones (Bella Swan, any number of OFCs)?

5.        Lone Wolf Women vs. Gals with Pals

6.        Women of Color

7.        Women with Disabilities

8.        “Choosing Your Girl” (ie, for me (PT), SPN is largely a male fandom, whereas with something like Firefly or Fringe, I’m more interested in the women...largely because of the female characters I’m given to work with in each canon - (cantarina) there’s also reclaiming, rewriting, expanding on, and sometimes creating women in male-dominated fandoms)

9.        Visibility, Interest & Feedback


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